Rebirth : Question from Fr Jose Mariadas

12/07/2009 Fr. Jose
Re-birth

I heard that In Budhist tradition when a Lama is re-born, at times, ther can be two or more Lamas. "Splitted incarnation"? Can the same be happened in the case of any person?

05/10/2009 leslie
Please answer this.
IT is an interesting question.Mr Krishnan may be urged to answer it.Doesn't he look into the forum these days ?


05/10/2009 Krishnan Kartha
Sorry Father Jose Mariadas , for the delay. Pt 1

I am very sorry that I saw the question this morning only.
It may be looked upon as an absurdity that Lamas are split into many in rebirths.As a matter of fact, Buddhism denies rebirth as a belief. It is interesting to note that Gautama Buddha himself had talked about his previous births! But still both Theravadins and Mahayana buddhists reject the belief. At the same time, in Tibet, Lamas are believed to be reborn and they are provided with signs of testimony to confrm such an occurance too. (You may please note here that the Tibetan Buddhism is Vajrayana (Vehicle of Thuderbolt) which has early roots in Indian Tantra. So Vajrayana might be accommodating rebirth!. )


Now coming back to the philosophy and the truth.

My inference, which is not secondary ( i ve not read anywhere,but still believ to be true) is as follows:-

The five sheaths known as Pancha Koshas get disintegrated and seperated when life leaves a human body. The five sheaths are Anna Maya Kosha (Gross Body), Prana Maya Kosha (Vital energy sheath) Mano Maya kosha (mental sheath) Vijnana Maya Kosha (Sheath of Awareness) and Ananda Maya Kosha (Sheath of experience). The concept of these koshas is classical but the disintegration part , is not.

The disintegration is as follows. Anna Maya kosha is decayed through burial or burnt into ashes by cremation. The Prana maya kosha returns to the Gross Vital field in the universe. Mano maya kosha and the other two are not returning to anywhere.They remain in such independent states and identify themselves with new bodies after some time. The Vijnana and Ananda koshas need not be effulgent in the body into which the related Manomaya kosha enters. It may take some time for the fulfillment or enlghtenment. The password is provided to the manomaya kosha to search into the realms of the Vijnana maya and Ananda Maya koshas after some time. These period is called Maya. Even incarnations have gone through such states. They become known to them on a fine morning.

05/10/2009 Krishnan Kartha
Part 2 on Lamas rebirths
SO when a manomaya kosha assumes a human body the Vijnana and ananda Maya kosha may also accompany it but it may remain low profiled. The key point is the password to login into the realms of Vijnana and Ananda. The mano maya kosha or the mind may have to undertake some steps to get the password. That may be a path of sadhana or even a simple thought or action. This is relative. Never generalised.

AT the same time, the most interesting thing is that OTHER MANO MAYA KOSHAS (MINDS) CAN ALSO AVAIL THE PASSWORD AND ACCESS THE SAID VIJNANA AND ANANDA MAYA KOSHAS OF ANOTHER IDENTiTY.

If Jose Mariadas has gone thorugh stages of experieces and awareness they are stored in the appropriate sheaths mentioned above. Father Jose can get into the reminiscenses of both realms if he becomes capable of doing so, in another birth of his. Not only he but I can also get access into the realm of these two sheaths orinially belonged to Fr.Jose Mariadas.

In order to get this access, continous and severe identification with the present Jose Mariadas' life may be necessary for me. Has it become clear, Father?

Some saints have gone through the passion of Christ. How do they do it? they become identified with Jesus in their Love for Him and both the sheaths of Vijnana (Awareness) and Ananada (Bliss/Experience) becomes open to them. St Francis of Assisi,I think had such experiences.

In many cases I have also understood that the experience is followed by awareness, the Wisdom dawns on the mind of these persons.! Sister Alphonsa had suffered a lot and she identified all those pains with the Passion of Christ, and then the Wisdom of Christ visited her mental realm. This is also not generalised. SImply by putting the body to pain one cannot access the wisdom. But the Love is crucial.This Love creates an identification and then it triggers.

Whether the Mano maya kosha of Jesus is reborn or not, the other sheaths is made available to people who do penance.

The access can be temporary also...................................


05/10/2009 Krishnan Kartha
Part 3 on Lama's rebirth
This can be temporary also.
When X ,because of his devotion for Lord Krishna, contemplates on his lord always, he slowly becomes identified with the Lord himself. (This is easily explained by psychologists, which they claim to end in split personaliety sydrome) More than a mental feeling that X is Krishna, X slowly starts to enter into the sheaths of Awareness and Bliss (VIjnana and Ananda Maya Koshas)of Krishna. He "recollects" the awareness and experience of Krishna. But X is not Krishna physically, since the Anna Maya Kosha is different. X may be soon identified as an avathar or ancarnation of Krishna. The password may be for some sectors of those sheath. It need not be full access.

In India, these stages are known as Saalokya, Sameepya, Saaroopya and Sayoojya. These are the four stages of devotion. When you are in the world of God you are in Saalokya. Your world is full of God only.This leads to Sameepya , nearness to the Lord. Eventually you look like the Lord, Saaroopya. The forms become identical. And in the end, it becomes SAYOOJYA (Yuj means to unite) the oneness.

And I was starting to say that this can be temporary. I shall explain that now.

In some cases after a visitation the whole experience may vanish. The Ego may be the reason. Under such situations "X" may start to become pretentious. Without any base he may make false claims. He will soon be reckoned as a fraud by the society.

This is the reason for different people remembering the key points about the Dead Lamas's life. There may be some questions to be asked to check whether he is the rebirth.More than one person may be able to answer. This makes the Tibetans believe that the Dead Lama is split into many!

In real, the Lama will reincrnate only in one body with his Manomaya, VinjananMaya and Anandyamaya koshas.

In Mahabharath, Dharmadeva is said to born as Yudhishtira and Vidura at the same period. When you study both characters, you can understand how thery were different,justifying my statement about sectorwise access.

05/10/2009 leslie
Wonderful answer.
Thanks a lot to Fr Jose Mariadas for asking the question and Mr Kartha for answering it in detail.

I have read somewhere that St Theresa of Avila too had such experiences. I now understand that the healing power they command might be because of the so called oneness in those two sheaths.

Anyway kudos to Karthaji

05/10/2009 Fr. Jose
Re-birth
Thank you very much Mr. Krishnan Karta. I always wonder at the way you give answers; especially the ease with which you blend different spiritual traditions to make clear what you intend. Once again thank you very much for the answer though much awaited.